A brief history of Stance in the U.S. 1940-1980

"Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder" (pabuuu4) 11/28/2014 at 17:16 • Filed to: history, stance, american

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I saw this and I had to share this with you. This shows that stance is not a new fad in automotive culture.

Thanks to /r/stance.

Late 30's

This '36 Ford Convert is very typical of the type of Customs that were being built just before WWII; Chopped Top, filled and smoothed hood sides, shaved handles and trim, etc. Not crazy low, but definitely a bit lower than stock.

Early 40's

'37 Chevy 3-Window coupe; chopped, shaved and damn near everything molded. The rear fenders have been welded to the body and then the seams filled with lead (they used lead before bondo was a thing) to smooth everything out. This put a lot of extra weight over the rear, causing the suspension to sag considerably. Voila, the quintessential "tail dragger" stance had been born. It is also where the once derogatory term "Lead Sled" came from.

Late 40's

Post WWII and customs are getting pretty low. And with the rear now purposefully lower than the front, lending to the already swoopy proportions of that gorgeous chopped roofline. Stance is now an integral part of the build philosophy. You won't see much camber on cars of this vintage, because most of them had straight axles which were "dropped" (the axle itself was placed into a special jig, heated and then reformed) to lower the front. This '39 Merc was built by the legendary Sam Barris. Wheel covers are '48/'49 Cadillac "Sombrero's".

Early 50's

Another Sam Barris build, this '51 Merc was bought brand new by Bob Hirohata in late 1950 and immediately taken to Barris Kustoms to have Sam work his magic to it. Modifications were extensive, to say the least. Car is pretty low, though level from front to rear. Wheel covers are '48/'49 Cadillac "Sombrero's".

Late 50's

This car was the game changer. Owned and built by one of the greatest custom painters of all time, Larry Watson. Notice just how frickin low this car is and keep in mind that adjustable suspensions were still not really a thing when this '50 Chevy was customized in 1957. Larry once told me that he got so many tickets for being too low, that he simply stopped paying them. This car was his daily for 2 solid years. From here on, cars got fewer and fewer wild body mods and instead got lower, crazier paint jobs and nicer wheels and tires. Wheels covers are '52 Oldsmobile with "Flipper bars" added.

Late 50's

Another of Larry Watson's personal cars was this brand new '59 Cadillac. He was making damn good money painting cars by this point and at 20 years old, paid cash up front. He told me he was so embarrassed to be sitting up so damn high, that he hid his face and drove from the dealership straight to his buddy's shop where they immediately gave the car this ground scraping stance. They then did a mild shave and Larry applied one of his signature "Panel" paint jobs, further accentuating just how long and low the car was. Larry daily drove this monster as well. He and most of his customers lived in the Bellflower/Long Beach region of Los Angeles and this area was essentially the birthplace and epicenter for this style of car. The style that would eventually evolve into what we now know as Lowriders.

Early 60's

'56 Ford Victoria built by the Alexander Bros of Detroit in 1960. Static dropped, low as a mf.

Early 60's

This is Ron Aguirre's '56 Corvette custom. This car went through numerous iterations (many of which were painted by Larry Watson) as Ron constantly updated and further modified the car to continue winning at shows. This is one of the final versions. Ron's Vette is one of the earliest documented cars with an adjustable suspension built for the sole purpose of getting the car off the ground so that it could be driven. The earliest setup built by Ron in '58 was a Port-o-Power hand pumped hydraulic system. He later installed an electric pump, but the car was only ever "juiced" in the front. Wheels are Chrome steel "Smoothies" with Tri-Bar faux knock-offs.

Mid 60's

By the time the mid 60's rolled around, hydraulics were becoming a bit more common, though still very expensive and very unreliable. Not to mention the terrible ride. Chevy Corvair's were wildly popular with guys who wanted to go low, because they are ridiculously easy to put a hydraulic system into. Here we see master Striper and Painter Walt Prey doing some striping on one. Wheels are Astro Supremes. Photo by Howard Gribble.

'62 Impala, nose down ass up! Despite the growing popularity of hydraulics, they were still very expensive. That being the case, most guys either simply did just the front or just the back. Hence the exaggerated stance a lot of juiced cars from this period tend to exhibit. Wheels are Superior steel "Slots". Photo by Howard Gribble.

Late 60's

We can see a bit of camber on the front of this '64 Impala, which is obviously a bi-product of lowering just about any car with IFS. But as hydraulics became more popular, significant camber told others that your car was likely juiced, so then the guys who couldn't afford a hydro setup would intentionally camber the hell out of the front of their cars just to get the look. Camber for aesthetics had been born. Wheels are Astro Supremes.Photo by Howard Gribble.

Howard Gribble's brand new '67 Impala on hydros. He took this pic just to show off his camber :)

Same Bug I originally posted, this shot shows off the wheels and stance a bit better. Wheels are chrome reverse steels with stock VW caps. Photo by Howard Gribble.

Did I mention that Corvair's and Hydraulics go together like peanut butter and jelly? Note the pack of smokes behind the front wheel, acting as a "lowness" gauge. Wheels are Rocket Stage-1's.

Early 70's

Another "juiced" Corvair, this one with a wild paint job and plenty of camber front & rear. Wheels are Astro Supreme's.

Very low Chevy Vega Wagon on hydros, taken from the pages of Hot Rod Magazine, Sept '73. Be sure to read the text on the photo, good bit of history there too! Wheels are 4-spoke Cragar S/S.

Mid 70's

Yet another Corvair, this one with wild fender flares, molded side pipes and Mustang tail lights tunneled in and turned on their sides.

Late 70's

The fitment on this static dropped Bug is damn near perfect. Almost flush ;) Wheels are 4-spoke Rocket Stage-1's.Style is ever evolving. Paint techniques come and go, but one thing has been constant since the early 40's, EVERYTHING looks better lowered.

Originally posted on /r/stance, I did not make this.

What do you think?

T5Killer > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/28/2014 at 17:20

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God I am old enough to remember when Rockets NOT Daytons were the wheel of choice on Lowriders.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/28/2014 at 17:22

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I see no illest stickers or baseball caps with the stickers left on. Tis close but tis no stance.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/28/2014 at 17:23

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You'll notice none of those have the extreme camber present with today's scene.

Also, those all still work as a vehicle and I doubt any of those mods made the car dangerous to drive or unsafe. Unlike today's scene where people regularly push beyond the boundaries of what is safe when they dial in that extreme camber, or use tires with so little sidewall they might as well be rubber bands.

I don't care what anyone does to their own car. I DO care when they then drive said car on the public roads with everyone else and it is no longer a safe vehicle. Endangering yourself and others for the sake of style points is beyond asinine.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/28/2014 at 17:29

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First off, the top picture people were chopping the roofs not for style, but for speed as even back then they realized that the they could go faster with a lower windshield.

The there's this:

The rear fenders have been welded to the body and then the seams filled with lead (they used lead before bondo was a thing) to smooth everything out. This put a lot of extra weight over the rear, causing the suspension to sag considerably. Voila, the quintessential "tail dragger" stance had been born. It is also where the once derogatory term "Lead Sled" came from.

No. The lead filler was used by everyone back then because bondo had not been invented. It did not add a lot of extra weight causing the rear to sag. The rears were lowered either by heating the springs, by using channeling, or by using other methods. And the use of Lead Sled came later on when the other styles of low riders came out.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 11/28/2014 at 17:32

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Al lot of those were rather unsafe in the workmanship, some were built right, but a lot were not or built for shows and could not be driven much at all.

Your boy, BJR > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/28/2014 at 17:42

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don't you dare compare Lowriders to stance. I should slap you through the computer for that. There is WAY more work, money, and thought out into those than these "lolcamberbruhstretchedtiresbruh" shit the kids are doing these days.

G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 > Your boy, BJR 11/28/2014 at 18:12

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Amen. Do not compare lowriders with any other form of customized cars. They are just about the only cars that can actually qualify as art. Note this stunning 68 impala, or this amazing custom interior, shown below.

Your boy, BJR > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 11/28/2014 at 18:28

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Plus! They hop! The only thing stancers can ever hope for is to sag (friggin' airbags. *spits on ground*)

camaroboy68ss > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 11/28/2014 at 18:43

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to clarify "lead sled" was used in the early 50s mainly to poorly chopped mercs that used a lot of lead to get the shape of the top instead of thinking the chop through.

as for the top pic, on a car like that chop was purely cosmetic. now if it was a early coupe or roadster than I can see the Bonneville angle.

camaroboy68ss > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/28/2014 at 18:44

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the Hirohata merc is also one of the first customs to break away from the dark colors of the late 40's

camaroboy68ss > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/28/2014 at 18:47

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This car was the game changer. Owned and built by one of the greatest custom painters of all time, Larry Watson. Notice just how frickin low this car is and keep in mind that adjustable suspensions were still not really a thing when this '50 Chevy was customized in 1957. Larry once told me that he got so many tickets for being too low, that he simply stopped paying them. This car was his daily for 2 solid years. From here on, cars got fewer and fewer wild body mods and instead got lower, crazier paint jobs and nicer wheels and tires . Wheels covers are '52 Oldsmobile with "Flipper bars" added.

while that is true, also many customs went from using other cars parts on a custom to more free hand fabrication that you see in many of Starbirds customs and Cushenberry built cars.

camaroboy68ss > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/28/2014 at 18:53

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here is a handful of pics of my grandpas 56 chevy "Miss Taboo" through the years going back when to the car was new to a couple of weeks ago

late 59/early 60

1958- car was bone stock

mid 1960

1991/92

1993

2014

TwinCharged - Is Now UK Opponaut > Your boy, BJR 11/29/2014 at 03:43

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Lowriders are fucking awesome.

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > camaroboy68ss 11/29/2014 at 04:38

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Beatiful car!

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > Your boy, BJR 11/29/2014 at 04:53

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As I said, this is not my post. Here is the OP .

I think lowriders are awesome, but I disagree with the 'way more work, money and thought out.'

There are shitty stance people and shitty lowriders. Stance is popular now so a lot of people try to recreate it, cheaply. If lowriding was popular, a lot of people would try to do that cheaply too. Because lowriding is not the most popular now you mostly see the good ones.

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 11/29/2014 at 05:01

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''They are just about the only cars that can actually qualify as art.''

This is subjective and although that is a stunning car, not only lowriders can qualify as art.

In my opinion and many other people think this and this is art too.

Your boy, BJR > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/29/2014 at 11:34

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2 things:

1) that Honda is worse than hitler

2) it'd be easier to get people to like stance if most stancers weren't such shitheads

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > Your boy, BJR 11/29/2014 at 15:21

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1) Your opinion

2) 'Most stancers' is incorrect, more likely a loud minority.

Your boy, BJR > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/29/2014 at 16:02

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(my opinions are secretly facts)

HNBAS > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 11/29/2014 at 16:50

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All of these vehicles have tires that fit the wheels. I can support this.

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > Your boy, BJR 11/29/2014 at 17:11

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(My opinions are secretly more true than yours)

anon-sxmcyecofnu1eocpqsk9iq > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 12/07/2014 at 19:11

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Come on... not all stanced cars are like this.

This is where it's at.

anon-sxmcyecofnu1eocpqsk9iq > G_Body_Man: Sponsored by the number 3 12/07/2014 at 19:13

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That interior looks like shit. The car is pretty cool though.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > anon-sxmcyecofnu1eocpqsk9iq 12/07/2014 at 19:25

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Still too low. How is anyone supposed to drive that on anything but a freshly paved road?

Those tires are so thin they might as well be rubber bands. There isn't any suspension travel either, has to ride like shit.

I'm all for people doing whatever they want to their own cars, but you'll never convince me that those haven't been ruined.

anon-sxmcyecofnu1eocpqsk9iq > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 12/07/2014 at 19:33

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They've been ruined in terms of driving experience, but many people just like the way stanced cars sit. Also, have you thought of air bags? A lot of low cars use them while casually driving, but at the press of a button you can get the car to sit millimeters from the ground to achieve the look people want but retain a decent driving experience.

The tires are not thin at all if you compare them to many high trim level cars today.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > anon-sxmcyecofnu1eocpqsk9iq 12/07/2014 at 20:28

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A car, as much as we may enjoy them, is really only ever an appliance to get from points A to B.

When you make car so low and useless it no longer functions, I don't care how good people may think it looks. It's stupid. And I don't have to like it.

However, people are free to do with their possessions as they please.

anon-sxmcyecofnu1eocpqsk9iq > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 12/07/2014 at 22:05

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You don't have to like it, but nobody asked for your opinion here.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > anon-sxmcyecofnu1eocpqsk9iq 12/07/2014 at 22:16

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True.

Neither did I ask for yours either.

As per my original reply, I do not care what any does to their own property with their own money.

The fact that many, I did not say all, stanced cars are unsafe to drive makes my blood boil. I feel the same about the ratty, neglected wrecks you see people driving as well.

Driving on our roads means you agree to the social contract covering their use. An unsafe car endangers those in and around it, and I don't give a shit how 'cool' some group of people may think it looks.

anon-sxmcyecofnu1eocpqsk9iq > ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) 12/08/2014 at 19:05

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I don't think "static" (low, without air bags) stanced cars are a good idea, it's very unsafe, but I'm okay with bagged cars as long as they sit high enough to easily clear a speedbump while driving.

Since you put out your opinion first, I wanted to give you mine just to say that stanced cars are not always ugly and unsafe.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > anon-sxmcyecofnu1eocpqsk9iq 12/08/2014 at 20:03

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I will concede that not all are done unsafely.

bob_o > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 12/18/2014 at 22:45

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Hi there, just came across this while on a random google hunt. Just wanted to let you know that I am the one who put this together on imgur for a post on reddit. Stoked that you liked it enough to repost, but not even attempting to give me any credit is pretty lame. It took me 6 hours to compile, write and edit this. A lil name-drop would've been nice. Just sayin.

Sincerely,

Bob aka _thirdeyeopener_ (the reddit user you swiped this from)

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > bob_o 12/19/2014 at 04:03

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I did not drop name because I thought that thad doesn't really matter on an anonymous board like reddit, so I thought I gave enough credit by explicitly saying that I did not make this. But I'll remember to do so next time.

This was an awesome post btw, I hope to see more of this in the future!